Silk Road forums
Discussion => Drug safety => Topic started by: zipstyle on January 16, 2013, 05:40 am
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Please use this thread to share ways in which casual/recreational drug users avoid becoming dependent on chemicals while still using them in positive ways. For me, I am most interested in meth and/or amphetamines, but any and all chemicals which may lead to dependence such as opiates are also welcome.
Aims: To provide some steps newer users can take to have responsible use of the substances they are in possession of.
Some possible suggestions: spacing out use, dosing low, not redosing, taking care of one's personal health.
More details = more better.
Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge and experience to help people stay safe and happy. :)
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Set a limit on how many times per week you'll use something and STICK TO THAT NO MATTER WHAT. Depending on how addictive, anywhere from 1-3 times a week usually works and put a limit on how much you can use each time. After finishing up using something, take some multivitamins, drink water, and exercise. Get your body back to it's rhythm.
Also if you can try to make so there'll be some sort of delay before you can get more of a product if you're particularly weak when it comes to willpower.
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+1 for first good reply :)
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Get through withdrawals by taking a drug that doesn't have a cross mechanism of action.
I haven't actually researched this concept, but it just came to mind.
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The problem with addiction is that it can be a slow creeper. There is no real "line" to cross when it comes to this. Everybody is different so "occasional use" is going to mean different things to different people.
But if you wake up one day and all you can think about is how you're going to get your fix, then you've crossed the line.
My personal recommendation is to stick to pot! It comes in so many varieties with different kinds of buzzes that you'll never get tired of it. Yeah I'm a pot purist so take that with a grain of salt.
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Well in regards to something like opiate dependence...my advice would be to never fuck around with opiates in the first place. I've been using heroin and other opiates for 10+ years and when I first started using I didn't use that often and thought that I was somehow different then everyone else and wouldn't become dependent...boy was I wrong!
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Summary so far:
1. Only use the drug 1-3 times a week and put a limit on how much you can use each time. After finishing up using something, take some multivitamins, drink water, and exercise. Get your body back to it's rhythm.
2. Get through withdrawals by taking a drug that doesn't have a cross mechanism of action. (Although this implies a dependence or addiction has already been established. Remember, we want to avoid getting to this point)
3. Don't mess around with addictive drugs because they will always get you addicted.
Keep em coming SR!
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My two cents would be :
1. Make sure you have some sort of purpose or goal when doing a drug. This might sound a little formal for a lot of people, but it does make a lot of sense. If you are using just because you have access to the drug, addiction can happy very quickly. For example, I see a lot of friends start using MDMA at concerts and festivals ( which is fine) but slowly begin to use it by themselves when they are home simply because they have nothing else to do. This causes a cycle of abuse that is hard to stop.
2. Like others have said, but limits on the amount of the drug.
3. Never make decisions about re-use when you are high. This might be the toughest one, but also extremely important to avoiding dependence.
4. Try not to get into a routine with the drug (occasional use is ok). For example, a friend would always take cocaine right before a morning stroll because it made him feel better. On mornings when he didn't take the coke, the run would be miserable. It was almost impossible for him to stop the coke because it became part of the experience. Do not let this happen.
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advice about opiates: at first they don't feel that good, feels like lesser form of alcohol or something like that but the more you use it the better it feels. and it's nothing better to go from feeling sick and cold to warm and comfortable.
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My two cents would be :
1. Make sure you have some sort of purpose or goal when doing a drug. This might sound a little formal for a lot of people, but it does make a lot of sense. If you are using just because you have access to the drug, addiction can happy very quickly. For example, I see a lot of friends start using MDMA at concerts and festivals ( which is fine) but slowly begin to use it by themselves when they are home simply because they have nothing else to do. This causes a cycle of abuse that is hard to stop.
2. Like others have said, but limits on the amount of the drug.
3. Never make decisions about re-use when you are high. This might be the toughest one, but also extremely important to avoiding dependence.
4. Try not to get into a routine with the drug (occasional use is ok). For example, a friend would always take cocaine right before a morning stroll because it made him feel better.
1: What about opiates or benzos? I mean, aside from the legitimate uses, what purpose could you have to take it besides being high?
3: I've found in my limited meth experience that, while your inner monologue may change to think that redosing is really the best idea, you'll have a voice in the back of your head preaching really conservative use and cuation. You might think, naw, that's just part of me being too careful, but it's not too careful. It's pretty much ALWAYS correct..
4: What about, say, taking 10mg of meth every Monday and Friday, because those are the days of our hardest classes? Sure, you may become dependent on the drug to properly perform in those particular classes, but if you are able to stay at that dosage throughout the semester, I don't see why it'd be a problem to be dependent in that manner.
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DXM is remarkable in it's ability to to prevent opiate addiction, and this is by two mechanisms of action:
1: Binds to opiate cell receptors, potentiating the opiate, and making it so your body requires less to achieve greater effects.
2: Makes your body mind "forget"(I believe mainly by deactivating the T-cell receptors) the effects of that drug, you're not quite aware of just how much you enjoyed the drug, and neither is your brain, (and physically, you'll come out of the high with less tolerance than you would have). I pretty sure this also has something to do with why DXM can negate physical brain damage(like a concussion).
I'm left not seeing any reason why this wouldn't also help negating the addictive properties of other drugs.
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My two cents would be :
1. Make sure you have some sort of purpose or goal when doing a drug. This might sound a little formal for a lot of people, but it does make a lot of sense. If you are using just because you have access to the drug, addiction can happy very quickly. For example, I see a lot of friends start using MDMA at concerts and festivals ( which is fine) but slowly begin to use it by themselves when they are home simply because they have nothing else to do. This causes a cycle of abuse that is hard to stop.
2. Like others have said, but limits on the amount of the drug.
3. Never make decisions about re-use when you are high. This might be the toughest one, but also extremely important to avoiding dependence.
4. Try not to get into a routine with the drug (occasional use is ok). For example, a friend would always take cocaine right before a morning stroll because it made him feel better. On mornings when he didn't take the coke, the run would be miserable. It was almost impossible for him to stop the coke because it became part of the experience. Do not let this happen.
These are some great suggestions, dreams. I especially appreciate the part where you mentioned not letting the drug use become part of a routine. It seems like common sense, but I think that's an easy one to overlook. +1
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Already posted this in another forum, but I realized it might probably be better suited for this forum topic. I hope nobody minds...
I just thought I'd share my most recent development with regards to my methamphetamine use. After taking about four days off (no meth at all, but continuing with vyvanse prescribed dosage schedule) I decided to try meth one more time before deciding that it was too dangerous for me. This time, I tried the oral route instead of insufflation, which I had been doing before.
Granted, even when I tried using meth via insufflation, I made sure I dosed only once and I was only doing about a matchstick head's worth. This time, I followed two rules for the experiment: (1) Dose orally without vyvanse or any other form of dextroamphetamine and (2) do not redose.
I put about two small keybumps worth into a gelatin capsule (in the past I was doing 1 keybump and stopping) because I know that the oral bio-availability drops to 50% or something like that. I took the capsule after eating a good breakfast and found that I had very smooth, sustained stimulation throughout the day. In fact, I never noticed when it wore off to be honest. I would not, however, suggest that this be done daily or with any level of frequency, but I think that it can definitely be useful and quite effective when used in this manner. Also, I have come to the conclusion that it might just be better for people to stick to dextroamphetamine. It's (more) legal, easily obtainable, and works almost exactly the same at low doses, which is what I want it for anyways. Yes, meth has more recreational value because the euphoria is much more pleasurable than dextro's. So if you're looking to go to tweak heaven, then meth is your answer. Or maybe MDPV. But for me, the comedowns are definitely not worth the high. So I will settle for what's in between.
I hope this is helpful to someone :)
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I just thought I'd share my most recent development with regards to my methamphetamine use. After taking about four days off (no meth at all, but continuing with vyvanse prescribed dosage schedule) I decided to try meth one more time before deciding that it was too dangerous for me. This time, I tried the oral route instead of insufflation, which I had been doing before.
Granted, even when I tried using meth via insufflation, I made sure I dosed only once and I was only doing about a matchstick head's worth. This time, I followed two rules for the experiment: (1) Dose orally without vyvanse or any other form of dextroamphetamine and (2) do not redose.
I put about two small keybumps worth into a gelatin capsule (in the past I was doing 1 keybump and stopping) because I know that the oral bio-availability drops to 50% or something like that. I took the capsule after eating a good breakfast and found that I had very smooth, sustained stimulation throughout the day. In fact, I never noticed when it wore off to be honest. I would not, however, suggest that this be done daily or with any level of frequency, but I think that it can definitely be useful and quite effective when used in this manner. Also, I have come to the conclusion that it might just be better for people to stick to dextroamphetamine. It's (more) legal, easily obtainable, and works almost exactly the same at low doses, which is what I want it for anyways. Yes, meth has more recreational value because the euphoria is much more pleasurable than dextro's. So if you're looking to go to tweak heaven, then meth is your answer. Or maybe MDPV. But for me, the comedowns are definitely not worth the high. So I will settle for what's in between.
I hope this is helpful to someone :)
That's really a surprise, as you've expressed both high interested in stims, and I'd think you'd be pretty well versed with them, you know, because you're into cocaine and MDPV and all.....
I've come to think meth might be the most mild stimulant. Now you're probably thinking, "hold on there, Jethro!" Those are some crazy words right there! Well, let me explain: I would say that meth is the most versatile stimulant, in experience. I mean, it works as the best drug to IV 200mg of, and it works as the best drug to take 5mg orally.
70mg Vyvance I hate with a burning passion. I am incredibly apathetic on a 30mg Adderall IR comedown. but 10mg meth capsules I've made. They don't last very long, as far as the high goes, but I'm REALLY liking the effects. They make a noticeable effect when it's peaking, but aside from just the absense of the drug, I can't even notice the comedown at all.
And I cannot possibly see how an addiction could develop from taking 20mg(maximum) a day. I mean, there will be days when you're like, "man, I could rail 30mg", and resisting that temptation might be hard at times if you have a 3.5g bag lying around your house, but if you can do that, making meth into 5, 10, or 15mg capsules seems perfect. Plus, it's really cheap. $200 for what's equivalent to 7,000 mgs of Adderall is cheaper than if you got it from a pharmacy.
The OP saying 'just don't binge' is like Nancy fucking Reagan saying 'Just say no'. It's a nice theory, ain't gonna happen in most cases, it won't in mine, are y'all honest enough with yourselves?
This community is founded upon the principal of responsible drug use. If you're friend had read this guide and a lot of these responses, there's a significantly lower chance he would have ever gotten addicted. Most people who end up getting addicted to meth, I'm sure that it really would have helped if they had known what the root cause of a lot of addiction is when they had started.
As for me, I'm sure you remember a bit ago when I was talking about getting something chewing at the back of your mind unless you attend to it, like alphabetizing your DVD collection or making sure your desk is perfectly lined up. Well, I'm pretty bad about this sort of thing when I'm sober, let alone on meth. A lot of my experience up to this point with meth has often decreased productivity, since I spent all my time doing something pointless and OCD-like.
I'm thinking, the absolute perfect state of mind would be the willpower, focus, & energy of meth combined with the lowered inhibitions & the ability to "let go" of that alphabetized DVD collection that's chewing at the back of your mind, that comes from a benzo. Not just would be be able to be SUPAPRODUCTIVE, but think of how well you would perform in social environments!
But the obvious problem is..... is chronic benzo us, even at therapeutic doses, sustainable? What about something that isn't quite like a benzo, but is made for chronic anxiety, like and SSRI such a Prozac or Celexa? I don't think they'd have a bad interactuion with meth, at least most of them. Anyone here have an idea of what would be the best SSRI? I'm going to do some research myself on it, but I don't know if I'll be able to find anything useful. The mechanisms of action on all those different SSRIs are all so damn complex.....
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That's really a surprise, as you've expressed both high interested in stims, and I'd think you'd be pretty well versed with them, you know, because you're into cocaine and MDPV and all.....
I'm not sure I came across properly... I think the part that confused you was: "I decided to try meth one more time before deciding that it was too dangerous for me." What I probably should have written was "I decided to try meth one more time before I made a conclusive decision as to whether meth was too dangerous for me or not." lol. I meant to say that I plan on continuing to use meth sporadically, I just am making a special effort to not get into the addiction territory. I'm pretty much doing what you are, making capsules. Difference between the two of us is that you're taking capsules every day (or several times a week) while I'm not taking it more than once a week, if that.
But the obvious problem is..... is chronic benzo us, even at therapeutic doses, sustainable? What about something that isn't quite like a benzo, but is made for chronic anxiety, like and SSRI such a Prozac or Celexa?
I would suggest against this and instead suggest to you... Remeron. That shit will knock you out at night and the next day you'll seriously feel like you're on at least 1 mg of xanax. Chills you out perfectly. The meth you take the following day will wake you up but you'll still have the perfect amount of anxiolytic action it sounds like you're looking for. Let me know how this helps comrade!
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We think some people are gonna jump out of planes, ride motorcycles, and do high addiction potential drugs no matter what. Hell, part of the appeal meth has for us IS the barbed hook. There's a roller-coaster thrill in contemplating one's own subjugation to a high so seductive that you'll throw your life away just to feel its caress. One. More. Time.
The best way to approach this is simply the most obvious. If you think you are likely to have issues with a drug, knowing oneself, and knowing the drug from research, then consider NOT doing it, even the SR welcome penned by DPR in part states, "...just because you can doesn't mean you should".
It's not about just saying 'no' it's about asking "Do I want to trade my soul for this particular substance, or are there other options?
Using is all about discovery, enlightenment, fun.
If the trade off is likely to be a rabid addiction, then move on to something else -why risk it?
The stakes are all -until you're nothing.
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Bynter & zipstyle,
LOLING MY NUTS OFF! ;D
You two are like the Butch & Sundance of the meth scene on SR.
If you know the movie, you'll know it was fun till it wasn't...
but we write with great affection for you two young outlaws, you remind us of the guy we wish we had been at your age :)
Peace, and... "Just keep thinkin' Butch, that's what you're good at..." -The Sundance Kid.
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The best thing about SR referring to dependance is it's quite easy to set up boundaries.
Unless you intentionally purchase more than what an occasional user would order then when you are out of supply the ordering and mailing system takes damn near 4-5 days at least to resupply. I fully endorse limits and only purchasing personal amounts on a week to biweekly level to discourage dependance. The addictive drugs esp. Meth, Cocaine heroin opiates in general
I suggest trying to maintain chipper status as long as possible. say meth for instance I will limit myself half a gram twice a month but what's even better is to swap out a different drug genre even time you order to not allow tolerances and addiction to even become an issue.
Say I'll do opiates this week, meth next week,psychedelics next week and dissociatives the next week. Having a turn-style selection allows different chemical levels to balance back out and keep you at a place were you limit the best you can tolerance and dependance to take hold.
This is my opinion.
X)
nomad
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Bynter & zipstyle,
LOLING MY NUTS OFF! ;D
You two are like the Butch & Sundance of the meth scene on SR.
If you know the movie, you'll know it was fun till it wasn't...
but we write with great affection for you two young outlaws, you remind us of the guy we wish we had been at your age :)
Peace, and... "Just keep thinkin' Butch, that's what you're good at..." -The Sundance Kid.
honored sir, honored :)
As a further note to those interested in my ongoing use of stimulants:
I have been able to moderate my use and have neither increased dosage or dosing schedules (no more than once a week and I have gone a full week without using meth). Using it erratically (as chaotic as this may seem) has proven to me to the best way to avoid addiction and dependence. I would love to take meth every day since it puts me in super productive mode and I feel kinda like the guy from limitless (on a MUCH lower manic scale) but I know that by doing so, I will be facing certain tolerance which leads to increase in dosage and, in turn, leads to a dependency.
The only drug that I've found to not have much detriment over a long period of consistent dosing is Vyvanse. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the lysine molecule or the metabolization of the drug, but I've been able to stay on the same dosage for quite some time (little more than 6 months) without seeing any dramatic changes to my tolerance. Taking one day off of the Vyvanse has been helpful also in keeping tolerance at bay. Occasional cycles of memantine have also proven to be quite helpful.
Ok, that's all for now. I hope this info is useful for someone out there!
Peace, Love, and All Things Good!
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The best thing about SR referring to dependance is it's quite easy to set up boundaries.
Unless you intentionally purchase more than what an occasional user would order then when you are out of supply the ordering and mailing system takes damn near 4-5 days at least to resupply. I fully endorse limits and only purchasing personal amounts on a week to biweekly level to discourage dependance. The addictive drugs esp. Meth, Cocaine heroin opiates in general
I suggest trying to maintain chipper status as long as possible. say meth for instance I will limit myself half a gram twice a month but what's even better is to swap out a different drug genre even time you order to not allow tolerances and addiction to even become an issue.
Say I'll do opiates this week, meth next week,psychedelics next week and dissociatives the next week. Having a turn-style selection allows different chemical levels to balance back out and keep you at a place were you limit the best you can tolerance and dependance to take hold.
This is my opinion.
X)
nomad
Moderation and rotation. I like that point.
I noticed that no one suggested journaling. I have found it's very benificial because you can go back and assess yourself and see your dosage as well. For instance a journal entry might be short and simple but look something like this.
Time:11:00 AM
Dosage:100mg
ROA:Smoked
Reason for use:First dose of the day.
Mood prior to dosing:Content and sleepy. (Well rested, slightly drowsy.)
Prediction of time for next dose:6:00 to 8:00 PM
This allows us to go back and look at when we dosed, how much and we can begin to observe patterns. Be honest in your journaling when it comes to mood. The first sign of developing dependence is self medication when we find ours elfs in a mood that we don't like. For instance, when you're sad you might use more often, or up your dosage. It's important to look for what triggers the feeling of wanting to get high. I've learned that when i'm upset to skip my dose and work it out using coping skills and allowing my brain to cope naturally. I've found that if i get high while upset, it doesn't cure the sadness or anger. It just postpones it, which can lead to self medicating and beginning the vicious cycle of addiction. Also, starting a journal about your diet can be very beneficial also. Especially with stimulants, it's very easy to underestimate the toll starvation can take on our body, brain, and mood.
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Great suggestion, sniper!
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im going to use a time delay safe set to 14 day cycles before i start getting into meth (already tried meth) and there will be no way to unlock the safe until the 14 days is up.. im going to save up all my willpower for the day the safe becomes unlocked.. not going to sit around letting it eat away at me during those two weeks intervals. i'll plan and prepare everything. in advance.
im not an addict cos ive only done it once where its worked properly and if it ever comes to me trying to get into the safe with an angle grinder i'll know its time to stop.
i understand the possibility that i might plan my life around that session every 2 weeks as well.
having a time delay safe, while people may scoff at it, is better than having it in an unlocked case and having to deal with temptation. a time delay safe has to be better than nothing. i'd rather resort to angle grinding the safe open than just opening up a tin and fucking your weeks plans up. its not goign to work for existsing addicts.. but for me thats going into the land of meth it is going to be a top priority.